I need to find a hobby that’s better for my health than watching the New York Mets.
I’m thinking maybe Russian roulette.
A long time ago, when I was still innocent and believed there was good in the world, it was a beautiful night for a ballgame. I was sitting in the stands with my wife, enjoying a crystal-clear evening as Bartolo Colon rolled through the Braves and Asdrubal Cabrera and Rene Rivera hit home runs to give the Mets a 3-0 lead. In the middle innings, we looked at the clock in disbelief and wondered if we might be out of Citi Field at the end of a two-hour Mets win.
Yeah right. Those early innings were a feint, shadowboxing meant to distract us from one of the meanest right hooks I’ve experienced at a baseball stadium.
If there’s baseball in Hell, rest assured that the eighth and ninth innings of Wednesday night’s game will be in heavy rotation for Mets fans. Pretty much everything you can torture a baseball fan with was on display: overmanaging, ill-timed misplays, lazy and/or inept execution, and finally luck that was both terrible and fatal. It was torture by frustration, culminating with having your heart ripped out and showed to you.
Whoa it’s still beating but it’s no longer in my chest, so how am I — GAAKKK!!!
(Trigger warning: bad shit dead ahead. If you’ve had enough, by all means hit the back button. No one will blame you.)
So yeah, let’s go through that eighth and ninth. Seems like fun.
Actually we’re going to back a bit. Addison Reed faced the Braves in the eighth — the same Reed who’d been summoned with two outs in the seventh and the Mets’ lead cut to a single run thanks to a homer from old pal Anthony Recker. Reed struck out Blake Lalli to prevent further harm, causing me to think a) that Terry Collins was showing some welcome flexibility in departing from his usual rigidly scripted use of Reed and Jeurys Familia; and b) that a Faith and Fear post overloaded with adverbs would be a fun goof on Lalli’s name.
I was probably still distractedly humming Schoolhouse Rock as Reed returned to duty and an error by James Loney put Ender Inciarte on first with nobody out. (You’ll be hearing more of Mr. Inciarte’s work, alas.) Reed got 2016 Mets nemesis Adonis Garcia to fly to right, but with eternal Mets nemesis Freddie Freeman up, Terry opted for Josh Smoker.
Smoker throws hard and has guts; I’m glad he’s a Met. But he’s not Reed. Freeman singled and Terry summoned Familia for a five-out save, double-switching Jose Reyes out of a one-run game in the process. Inciarte and Freeman pulled off a double steal and then Familia went to work on Matt Kemp.
Kemp hit a ball to left, where Yoenis Cespedes was perfectly positioned — behind the ball, eyes on home plate. At third base, Atlanta coach Bo Porter saw that and put up the stop sign. Inciarte ran through it. Cespedes heaved the ball wildly and the game was tied.
In the bottom of the eighth, with one out, Cespedes connected off Brandon Cunniff.
It was an odd night at Citi when it came to baseball parabolas — yes, Rivera, Cabrera and Recker had hit balls out, but most balls weren’t traveling as far as you expected off the bat. That downtick in temperature and humidity robbed them of a bit of distance, as both Cabrera and Loney found out at discouraging points during the proceedings.
But Cespedes’s drive … it sure looked gone. Heck, off the bat it looked like it would be 20 rows beyond the Great Wall of Flushing. But as we all got to our feet I wasn’t quite sure. The ball was high — at first majestically so, then worrisomely so. Kemp went back to the wall, but he wasn’t getting as close as he could to spare his pitcher’s feelings. He looked like he had a play. The ball clanked off his glove and we turned to see Cespedes arriving at second instead of third — he’d been admiring his handiwork instead of running.
The Braves walked Curtis Granderson, and he and Cespedes pulled off a double steal of their own — take that, Braves! But Chaz Roe fanned T.J. Rivera before giving way to Aaron Krol.
Which is when Terry really started overmanaging.
Frankly, I thought Tuesday’s calling on Eric Campbell and Kevin Plawecki was a terrible idea that happened to work, which isn’t the same as a good idea. This time, Terry outdid even himself, burning Kelly Johnson in favor of Campbell. Campbell, you may recall, collected his first hit since May on Tuesday; apparently Terry decided Tuesday was the first day of the rest of Soup’s baseball life. When the Braves walked Campbell, Terry countered by hitting Plawecki for Loney. Newcomer Ian Krol was wild and went to 2-0 on Plawecki, who promptly expanded the strike zone, fanning in a remarkably feeble at bat.
(Let’s stop and recall that Terry didn’t have Wilmer Flores because Wilmer got hurt in a collision at home plate in Atlanta, a collision that wouldn’t have happened if Terry hadn’t forgotten to pinch-run for him.)
Onto the ninth in a tie game, with Familia returning to duty after sitting in the dugout during the whole excruciating mess. The Braves took the lead on a couple of soft singles and a perfectly placed RBI groundout from Inciarte. Enter Jim Johnson to protect the Atlanta lead, fresh off fanning Cespedes with a remarkable, Wainwrightian curve that ended Tuesday night’s game.
We were all hoping and praying the lineup would get to Cabrera and Cespedes, while wondering what parade of pinch-hitters Terry had in mind now. Brandon Nimmo hit for Rene Rivera and singled; Jay Bruce hit for single-thumbed Juan Lagares and arrived to an odd sound, a mix of determined cheers and anticipatory boos and possibly ironic BRUUUUCEs. He struck out, and I suppose it’s a small kindness that no one will remember that given what was in store for us.
Travis d’Arnaud, another Met who marked Bark in the Park night by finding himself on a short leash with the fans, did what Plawecki couldn’t and coaxed a walk. Cabrera hit a deep but playable fly ball. Two outs, and it was time for the Cespedes-Johnson rematch.
On Tuesday, Johnson attacked Cespedes with fastballs to set up that killer curve; this time he showed Cespedes the curve first, getting strike one with it. He then went to the fastball and threw one that didn’t sink. It arrowed right down the middle of the plate and Cespedes mashed it on a line to right-center.
It sounded good. Hell, it sounded great. It sounded like a walkoff, and we started to yell. But I remembered the ball that had looked gone and wound up just eluding Kemp’s glove, and so I felt a queasy dread as I watched Inciarte run to the fence and leap, his glove flicking above the wall. He came down on the warning track and held his glove up, radiating such joy that he looked like he was on springs, and the game was over.
I stood there in silence, trying to process everything that had happened and get it to add up to something different. The Mets put the replay up immediately, and if you watch the Braves’ highlight (not that I recommend this), you can hear the moment we all got a real look at what had just happened — an OHHHHHH rolls through the crowd as Inciarte is still making merry with his teammates.
Walking out of Citi Field, I let myself imagine how much fun it would have been if Cespedes had hit the ball just three inches higher, to paraphrase Charlie Brown. But on the 7 train the mood was … well, better than I’d expected. And I found myself oddly philosophical.
That Mets’ defeat had a lot of ingredients: frantic overmanaging, bad at-bats, errors, lazy baserunning, lousy luck. But the game came down to a line drive sizzling through the air and one guy who had a small chance at interrupting its journey.
There are lots of ways to lose a baseball game. Most of them aren’t terribly interesting, and the sting goes away once you see a game that isn’t lost. But this wasn’t one of those baseball games.
Years from now the name “Ender Inciarte” will come up and you’ll remember, and your jaw will clench. This was as cruel as the game gets — which means, inevitably, that it was also about as astonishing and thrilling as it gets. I wish I could erase the ending we got and write a new one, but I don’t have that power. It was going to happen anyway, and since it did, I don’t regret being there to see it and hear it and feel it and have to take it away with me.
When the talk turns to Pratt hitting it over the fence or the 10-run inning or the Grand Slam Single or Piazza’s 9/21 homer I smile broadly and say that yes, I was there. I cherish these things as a fan — the memories, and every chance I get to relive them.
And when talk turns to other games — to Willie Harris robbing Carlos Delgado, or Murph coming up too quick on a ground ball in the World Series — I smile wistfully and say that yes, I was there. So shall it be with the Ender Inciarte game. I don’t cherish those memories, exactly — they’re unwelcome companions when the clock says 4 am and sleep is nowhere in sight — but they’re as much a part of being a fan as those other, happier ones.
Tough game. Lots to pick over.
Let this be a formal warning: DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON EACH OTHER.
Management will wake up irritable and in no mood.
What? Bruce struck out? Cespedes didn’t hustle? Terry foolishly took out Reed for minor league lefty? Surely none of that happened.
Luckily, everyone else lost, too, except the Pirates who suddenly are back from the dead, 3.5 games out.
I listened to the game with Rose and Lewin on WOR, so I could only imagine the fan reactions to Collins’s frantic managing. When he took out Reed for Smoker, I thought, “He done lost his mind.”
It seems like all the breaks that had been going the Mets way flipped the other way against the Braves. Hopefully, the bad luck will leave town with the Braves. No more of them on the schedule for 2016.
Adios Collins. If the mets don’t make the playoffs terry will be fired.
As he should
This season is going to kill me.
The Mets have spent the past week mounting what have been at best feeble offensive attacks against teams with crap pitching. There isn’t a Terry Collins hater in all of #MetsTwitter who can convince me that these losses are on him. Yes, he overmanaged. As does virtually every manager in baseball, especially with the lefty/righty late inning matchups. Well, last night, the Braves lefty/righty matchups worked, ours didn’t. You get 6 and two-thirds of 2 run ball out of your starter against a last place team, you should score enough to win the game. Period.
This one’s on TC.
The brain-dead manager did it again. Addison Reed is deemed not good enough to complete the 8th. After all he’s done this season, TC thinks Addison Reed is not good enough. TC thinks Smoker is better than Addison Reed.
The move is indefensible.
Sure it’s defensible. In fact it worked. Smoker through a great pitch, made the almighty Freeman take an awkward hack, jammed the crap out of him. Can’t do anything about a dying quail blooper. Reed couldn’t have gotten softer contact.
Amazing how THEIR hits are always clunkers, bleeders.
No honest observer could deny that the Mets made far superior contact the last 2 innings or that Smoker executed his pitch perfectly and Freeman simply got lucky. Do you genuinely deny this?
It worked???? How does a single (no matter if it was a bleeder, a bloop, a broken bat, a jam-shot, etc) constitute the move working?
No doubt in my mind, since the move didn’t produce the desired outcome, therefore, it failed. Freeman came through and Smoker didn’t. Period.
To replace perhaps our best pitcher with a career minor leaguer, in that spot, with SO MUCH ON THE LINE is indeed indefensible. I simply don’t see how Smoker was a better option in that spot than Reed. PLUS if the move didn’t work (which it didn’t), TC then had NO CHOICE whatsoever but to bring in Familia. There was no other option. Without that move, even if Freeman singles, he’s still got Reed to pitch to Kemp.
Pete, if a pitcher gets any hitter, let alone one as red hot and dangerous as Freeman to take an incredibly awkward swing and hit the ball so far in on the handle it’s a wonder he didn’t break his bat, then he has done his job. Where the ball goes after that is up to fate, or the baseball gods, or Buddha or whatever you believe in.
In my book, a pitcher’s job is considered done when he gets an out. It is no more complicated than that. And you are exactly right, fate does play a role… in success as well as failure. Just as sure as Freeman’s bleeder fell in, he could have hit one right on the button for an out, which I would have considered a job well done by Smoker. That’s life.
I looked at the clock in the 5th inning and thought things were going swimmingly. I can’t believe how it unraveled and I can’t believe how much of a gut punch that catch was. I wasn’t sure it was out, but it was, and then it wasn’t. I’ve avoided watching footage from games 4 and 5 of the world series and I’m not watching any more replays of that catch.
We never never never never do anything nice and easy.
Cmon – we’re mets fans. It wouldn’t be right if this thing didn’t come down to the last game of the year. If we wanted an easy time, we’d watch the Yankees.
The Mets should be able to score more off these pitchers, but the Braves lineup is pretty scary if you ask me. I’m also glad we’re done with them.
As for TC – I think he’s like a streaky hitter – he’ll have some good runs with lineup moves and pitching substitutions and then he goes into a slump where you can’t imagine what he’s thinking. Pretty inconsistent, but ultimately a solid manager who gets a lot out of his team. He did get lit up last night.
There is NO EXCUSE to be swept TWICE at home by a second-division team like the Braves.
And, I do not want to hear they should have won if not for Ces being robbed of the HR. They NEVER should have been in position to NEED to come from behind.
Why does the offense stall after putting up two runs after two batters in the first? Same old, same old, same old.
How can TC take out Reed to play “lefty-lefty” matchup? Yet another game where a move of his cost them. (Snarky thought: If Mo Rivera were pitching would he removed him for a left reliever making his MLB debut: ;) )
If not for his mistakes, Mets would be up at least two games in the w/card race. And, don’t get me started on this team’s slumbering against inferior opponents. Dbacks. Padres. Dbacks again. Braves. Unmotivated players can be traced back the manager not getting his message across consistently.
I don’t mean to seem like a disloyal fan – I’m not – but I’m glad I’m going away this weekend and will miss most of the Phillies series. Right now this team is just too frustrating to watch. Part of me even wonders if I should not even check the scores on my phone – or duck my head into a bar that has the game on – until Sunday evening.
It’s a shame to think that way with the number of games dwindling…when no matter what happens there will be no games at all until 2017…but my mind may need a Mets-cation. That said, I’ll still be rooting for them from afar…
Steve K: I know how you feel, but resist the urge to ignore them this weekend. We know how rare seasons like this are for the Mets. Who knows when we’ll get another one. I’ll say it again: Last night’s loss, and it might end up right there with the Pendleton game, was horrible, but I’ll take that loss any time over a 10-0 win over the Braves on Sept. 21 when the Mets are 15 games out of the wild card. ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
Of course, that doesn’t excuse Collins for the idiotic move of taking out Reed in the 8th, a move that became even worse when we realized that his next move after Smoker was to ask Familia for a five-out save. THAT was the decision that almost made me turn off the game. But I didn’t because I know fleeting seasons like this are. I was there for 1974-83.
Dave R. – fair point. Especially regarding your remark about comparing last night to a 10-0 win when 15 games out. I’ll even extend your remark to say I’ll take last night over a come back from being down 0-10 to beat the Braves when 15 out. :)
Off-topic: I heard Gary’s call of the game-ending play live, and Howie’s call this morning. Both announcers, even though the play went horribly against their team, handled it professionally, showing genuine excitement. Well done. No matter how the team fares no the field, we’re fortunate to have some of the best announcers in the game.
Last night’s unraveling reminded me of a different punch in the gut—the 8/20/1989 game, featuring a two-out, three run, 9th inning HR by none other than Willie Randolph to allow the Dodgers to rip the heart outta the Mets, 5-4. Sure, last night was a game-ending catch, and Randolph’s used his bat, not glove. But that game similarly took the air out of the ballpark like last night.
It’s a ten-game season now. Our Mets are still tied for the lead. Keep the Faith, manage your Fear, in the boys of Flushing!
Think about it Dave. TC had to know when he went with Smoker, his ONLY next move was to bring in Familia to pitch to Kemp. There was no other option — was he going to go with Verrett, Goedell, Robles, etc?? No way. That was the mistake of the move to bring in Smoker. If he left Reed in, even if Freeman gets a hit, he STILL would have had Reed to pitch to Kemp. TC backed himself into a highly undesirable corner and paid for it DEARLY.
So, so glad I went to bed…..really enjoyed reading about TC’s ineptness again, and watching the kid catch the game winner over the wall….
Great stuff.
This game wasn’t about managers. The supposedly controversial move to Smoker worked. He jammed the bejeezus out of Freeman who dorked in a lucky hit to left. The Braves got 2 lucky hits in fact, that one and the Bonafacio hit, plus a perfectly placed dribbler by Enciarte to score a run. Our sure handed first baseman booted a routine grounder. Our hottest hitter Rivera couldn’t put the ball in play with runners on 2nd and 3rd and one out and of course all the Yo craziness. I understand the instinct to want to blame people, but sometimes you just have to shake your head at the crazy game that is baseball.
Matt: I understand what you’re saying about Smoker making a good pitch. He did. But all season, Collins didn’t play righty-lefty with Reed, and the worst part was asking Familia for five outs. The decision seemed bad on so many levels.
Well, in fairness, if the Freeman jam shot was an out, which it would be the vast majority of the time, JF would have needed only 4 outs. He went 1+ innings many times last year and it never phased him.
In my opinion, the manager’s sole responsibility is to put players in a position to be successful. Again, in my opinion Terry Collins fails to do so. So when crazy stuff happens, there is no margin for error.
Sometimes people say look at the back of the baseball card–that is what we can do with the NY Met’s Manager.
He is what his record is…..
Yeah that was heartbreaking. Ces did exactly what we needed him to do, what he almost always does, and Inciarte did that? Pretty cruel, indeed. I, too thought TC lost his mind when he took out Reed. When you’re talking baseball cliches, dance with the gal what brung you should trump lefty-righty matchups. Reed 8th-Familia 9th proven formula all year. I’d rather get beat with my best in there. I’m a Terry fan, so I won’t kill him for this, but I couldn’t believe it.
And yet, after all the heartbreak of the last 3 days, Mets are still in this thing, still have a WC spot. Perks of the WC race, I guess. And our boys still showing us they don’t quit ever. Love this team, love their spirit and character, no matter how it turns out in the end. LGM. Kill those Phillies!
Right on mookie! I’m with ya!
Anthony Recker hit a key home run. Loney made an error that put the tying run on base. Familia allowed a double steal at a critical point in the game (and then couldn’t finish off Matt Kemp and his 148 strikeouts). TJ Rivera, a hot hitter who NEVER strikes out, STRUCK with the tying run on third and one out. Cespedes missed a home run by an inch not once, but TWICE, the second one squashed by one of the plays of the year.
Taking all that into consideration, of COURSE it’s Terry Collins’ fault! They LOST, it couldn’t POSSIBLY be for any other reason, because it NEVER is.
Thank you, Rob. They faced pitchers in this series with ERA’s that should get you a ticket to the Somerset Patriots, and they can’t muster any offense (after doing the same against the mighty Minnesota Twins and all of their Cy Young candidates). But somehow it all comes down to the manager who got them into the World Series last year and this year, watching one key player after another get not just hurt but pretty seriously hurt, still has them in the thick of the playoff race.
Rob, what’s your opinion on pinch-hitting Campbell for Kelly Johnson and Plawecki for Loney?
I probably wouldn’t have hit for Kelly Johnson because he is not bad against lefties. Loney is only hitting .180 vs. lefties, so I would have been more likely to hit there. Of course the question in both cases becomes “does a righty who has not been a particularly good hitter really give you an advantage just because he’s hitting against a lefty?” I didn’t take the time to look into any advanced splits, only ave. vs lefties, so there may be something in there that Terry Collins knows that is not readily apparent. And both did hit the ball hard the night before.
That being said, on the surface, I do think TC gives too much value to same side match-ups (both offensively & defensively). But blaming him for every decision is unfair. Putting up a righty to face a lefty is pretty conventional baseball “wisdom,” so you can criticize him for not thinking outside the box, but these are not outlandish moves as far as modern managing goes. And he is mixing and matching flawed backup players, it’s not like he’s got Rusty Staub on the bench. And to be fair, it was d’Arnaud who killed the rally on Tuesday, and yesterday was a win if not for a spectacular play (Plawecki’s at bat was admittedly awful). But you know, they could have easily won BOTH those games.
It’s the time of the year when I get frustrated enough to begin yelling F*ck You loudly at the TV (without the asterisk, of course). Last night Plawecki and Bruce heard it from me.
And yet, I was oddly happy for the Braves. This was probably one of their few games of pure joy all season. They played hard, clearly with more spirit than the Mets, and they deserved the win.
And somehow, some manager named Snitker out managed the Manager named Terry Collins. Or more to the point, Terry Collins out managed himself.
>>[The Braves] played hard, clearly with more spirit than the Mets, and they deserved the win.<<
How can a team fighting a playoff spot play with less spirit than a team out of the race? After showing so much spirit over their 20-7 run? Ken, your remark adroitly sums up the state of the Mets at this moment.
Yes. His record says he is the manager that had a team that was expected to be about .500 within a couple of blown saves of winning a World Series and then followed that by taking a team that essentially lost its entire Opening Day lineup and rotation to 10 games over .500 and a flat tie for the first wild card with 10 games to go. For a franchise by the way that has seen very little success in recent decades. Extraordinary accomplishment.
By the way, the second I saw him go to Smoker my heart swelled with pride. It was classic Terry. Such a gutsy move. A move that would draw tremendous ire if it backfired, but he just DOESNT CARE about protecting himself. He only cares about the team. Everyone is forgetting or ignoring that this is Freddie Freeman we are talking about. Probably the most dangerous hitter in all of baseball right now. Absolutely murdering right handed pitching and in position to win the game for Atlanta. Does he handle lefties better than most? Sure, but he’s nowhere near as dangerous either power wise or average wise. And again, everyone is ignoring that Smoker made a great pitch and got a terrible swing and weak contact from Freeman. It’s not Smoker’s fault and it certainly isn’t TC’s that the Mets had horrible luck last night and it dorked into left field.
Put it this way…run that scenario 100 times and I guarantee you Freeman does more damage against Reed than he does against Smoker. In a one off, anything can happen. I stand by the move and I stand by TC and the Mets. Everyone that wants to lose their minds with anger and cast blame all around can feel free to do so. How do you think it feels to be a Giants fan this month? They’ve lost 5 9th inning leads in 20 games. Shit happens in baseball. Sometimes it helps to have a little stoicism.
What’s your take on pinch-hitting Campbell for Kelly Johnson and Plawecki for Loney?
My take on that is that it is the natural outcome of the absurdity of expanded rosters. I wish they would change the rule to be like football where you can have X number of guys on the roster but only so many active per game. Inevitably managers will get matchup happy in crucial moments when you give them that many bodies to choose from. If anything I was surprised that the Braves skipper didn’t have a righty ready to face Kevin.
I’m sure many were stunned to see KP get an AB in such a crucial spot, but he smoked the ball the night before off the same pitcher if I’m not mistaken.
You have to admit, it’s kind of funny that not that long ago TC was being characterized as something of a “do nothing” manager and now the gripe is that he is being too heavy handed.
I guarantee you that if Freeman hit a line drive at someone and people complained that he “got lucky” that you would have said, “what are you saying, he got his man, Reed might have given up a clean double, great move.”
Just a reminder: Smoker has 4.38 era pitching mainly against lefties, Reed is 1.72 vs. all.
If Freeman had homered I would have stood by the move. TC was playing the percentages. As great as AR has been, he isn’t infallible, and Freeman is FAR more dangerous against righties. This to me falls in to the category of trying like hell to keep that one guy from beating you.
A closer look at Smoker’s numbers reveals that he has been scintillating of late and really doesn’t have enough innings to make much of his ERA one way or another.
On Smoker’s few innings: Yes, because he’s been in the minors almost all year.
Freeman vs. righties this year: .307
vs Lefties: .295
Oddly, EXACT same numbers in 2015.
Yeah his batting average is similar (although less so recently as he is just killing righties) but his slugging percentage is 100 points lower.
That is weird about mirroring 2015
how about these percentages:
LH vs. Reed (2016): .196
LH vs. Smoker (2016): .381
(sorry, i see this point has been made already)
Problem is, the scenario would not be run 100 times…. just this once. Not only that, it came with 11 games left in a nip and tuck post-season race. I will never accept the position that using a rookie, lifetime minor leaguer over one of the best relievers in the game this season was the right move to make. And, as the result shows, it failed.
…and that’s not even factoring in the opportunity cost of burning Reed, Reyes AND Smoker in a late/close game!
“Good evening, sir. Welcome to the Heartbreak Hotel. How long will you be staying with us?”
“Its unclear at this moment.”
“Very well we’ll consider your stay open-ended. There are a number of folks from San Francisco and St. Luis checking in today as well.”
That was an absolutely sensational catch. Let’s just leave it at that. There’s another game tonight!
Edited: Generally directed baiting is still baiting.
Yeah, that was an amazing, probably once in a lifetime play, an Endy Chavez-level catch. One that, if the Mets miss the playoffs by a game, will give us all nightmares forever. Hopefully it has no impact in the long run.
I’m sorry my earlier comment was considered baiting. To rephrase: I simply think that it is nice to occasionally credit the opponent rather than look around for people to blame. When two teams or two opponents are fighting tooth and nail and it comes down to such small margins between victory and defeat it is a beautiful thing, even in the pain of defeat.
Better. Thanks.
Thanks for the article and the thoughts.
I think the Braves are better than their récord. Freeman, Kemp and the right fielder fit on any team.
Plus the catch was a perfect. Im not sure if De Aza or Granderson make that catch. (Lagares yes).
Agreed that after two batters and 2-0 its hard to understand that they only score 3.
Im ok with all of TC moves although the discusión is understandable.
Thanks again
sorry matt, but my heart swelled with rage, because neither you nor elmer fudd consider the ripple effects of removing reed in that situation, which would then require familia to come in the 8th, which requires a double switch out of reyes, etc. watching TC manage is like watching a toddler try to play chess.
maybe he’s a great player’s manager. let’s ask addison reed! https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2016/09/22/how-terry-collins-blew-the-game-before-the-great-catch
I agree with those of you who said rather lose like this than win in a meaningless September. And it is baseball, after all, can’t predict it, can’t rely on it. Just have to buckle our seatbelts, cause it’s gonna be a bumpy ride. But at least we’re in the amusement park, and what a ride it’s been already! Gotta keep our faith and LGM.
I like elmer fudd, so I’ll ignore the implied insult there. Actually I did consider the ripple effects and deemed them tenable. Familia has nailed down multi inning saves with aplomb numerous times. As to the NY Post, the day I start taking my queues from them is the day I check myself into a mental facility.
I agree that Terry over-managed a little last night and that he’s got some misplaced faith in Plawecki, Campbell, et al. But these are very tough games– the Mets have been playing must-win games since the middle of last month– and he’s trying to play every angle.
They need to get some more offense, it’s been the same problem since May. Does Bruce get hot? Doesn’t look good. Conforto? Ditto and you know I love that guy. Loney? D’Arnaud? Where’s the jolt gonna come from? Who’s gonna get on base? Who’s gonna get the big hit?
And yet with all the current problems– on top of injuries, remember, to Wright, Walker, Duda, Lagares, Harvey, deGrom, etc.– the Mets are tied for a Wild Card spot. This is what it’s all about: tough, tight, well-played, memorable games when they matter most.
As on old Met Fan–last week or so of 1998 season comes to mind (painfully.)
Last night–How does Plawecki manage NOT to get hit by pitch with bases loaded late in game?
Plus E-3,late……been there done that– VS teams 31 games below .500 sweeping Mets in Queens…sigh..
But they are still tied in WC–so ya’ never know.
Hang in there…
Lets Go Mets!
Reyes 3B
-Familia P
-d’Arnaud PH
Cabrera SS
Céspedes LF
Granderson RF-CF-RF
T.J. Rivera 2B
De Aza CF
-Reed P
-Smoker P
-Reynolds 3B
-Johnson PH
-Campbell PH-1B
Loney 1B
-Plawecki PH
-Kelly 3B
R. Rivera C
-Nimmo PH
Colón P
-Conforto RF
-Lagares PR-CF
-Bruce PH
22 players in a 9 inning game is not “over-managing a little”
That is a very long list for so little offense. They hit, nobody has to over-manage.
It has everything to do with the disgrace that is expanded rosters and nothing to do with any flaw in TC. He was simply matching up with the moves that Atl made, and as Dave noted, had the offense come through even a little, it never would have come down to all that.
TC literally double-switched out Reyes for Reynolds, then pinch-hit Kelly Johnson for Reynolds and then Campbell for Johnson. he literally expended 2 infielders without either seeing a pitch to bring Eric Campbell to the plate.
this is way past playing matchups. it’s indefensible.
I say he had a logical reason behind each move you listed there, but to play devil’s advocate, let’s say he didn’t and those moves were utterly superfluous. How did they damage the team? What exactly is indefensible?
In a game that featured Anthony Recker hitting a home run, Cespedes hitting back to back balls to the very tip of the wall accounting for zero runs, Loney committing a brutal and costly error, Reynolds failing to put the ball in play with runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, not to mention the Mets scoring 2 runs 2 batters into the game and then scoring one thin run the rest of the game, what possibly could lead one to the conclusion that this defeat is all about the manager? It is absurd in the extreme.
he expended 2 infielders in the 8th inning of a tie game without either seeing a pitch to bring up a AAAA player hitting .172 on the season. (and this was maybe his third-worst series of moves in the game).
in a vacuum, some of his moves were defensible (some weren’t). but IMO it is the sum total of all his moves which is indefensible. terry makes bad moves that force him into more bad choices.
I am not looking forward to 7 with the Phillies, and I am wholeheartedly dreading 3 in Miami–but if given the choice, I would still take our schedule over the Cards’ & Giants’. These final 10 games will not come down to who wins the most, but who loses the least.
I’ll go out on a limb and say either SF or StL will go 5-5 over this stretch. That leaves us with the task of going 6-4.
God… assuming we lose 2 in Miami, that would require us to go 5-2 vs the Phillies… oh dear.
I’ll forego commenting on the last two disgraceful innings, and, instead, focus on the next ten games:
Seven games with the Phillies. Three games with the Marlins (with no Jose Fernandez). That should be a pathway to the wild card game.
The Cardinals have three games with the Cubs, four with the Reds, and three with the Pirates. I don’t know about the Reds, but the Cubs and Pirates will not go gently into that good night.
The Giants have to face Arizona, San Diego, and three to wrap up with the Dodgers (who will be resting key players prior to the NLDS with Washington).
If the Mets don’t make the Wild Card game, I’d love to know what Sandy Alderson’s appraisal of the 2016 season will be.
I’m not sure that his appraisal will vary much on whether or not they make the Wild Card game. A GM has to look big picture and the tiny variance involved in a race this tight wouldn’t alter his perceptions. I agree though that he has a whole hell of a lot to ponder. On the positive side it appears that we have more ML capable talent than perhaps previously thought. Our pitching depth is greater and some of these young position players seem to have legit game. At the same time, most of them fit sort of the same, super utility, solid but not star type profile, at least for now. Figuring out who has earned starting jobs and where will be a monumental task. And of course, will they or won’t they with YO.
Cards: Cubs are resting folks, Reds are awful, Pirates will be out of it by then. You do the math.
Giants: AZ awful, San Diego awful, Dodgers will be resting players.
Just in case you are satisfied that ‘we are still tied’ instead of “we should be two games up with our schedule and will regret this week.”
Do you not think the Cards or Giants fans couldn’t just as easily say that they should be up 2 (or more)? Anyone can play the woulda coulda shoulda game.
A better way to look at this would be to say, what an opportunity we have in front of us! One that very few thought we would as recently as a month ago.
How many previous years would most of us had given so much to have this kind of opportunity? To be negative and cynical at this stage defies reason.
I remember being a Met fan in the late ’70’s, early ’80’s, when our greatest joy in September was in throwing a monkey wrench in some other team’s playoff hopes. Because our own playoff hopes didn’t exist.
That’s the Braves this year. They’re a proud franchise that has fallen far, and this is all they have to play for. And frankly, they’ve owned us this year. I’d still rather be us than them. Can’t say I’m sorry to see the last of Freddy Freeman and his cohorts in ’16. We’ll get ’em next year.
Side note: Terry did not have a good game. I like him overall, but we can’t put lipstick on this particular pig.
To add another point – in all my years as a Met fan, some of the most excruciating heartbreakers took place last year. Somehow, the Mets wound up in the World Series anyhow. That’s what’s great about this game. It’s 162 games in a regular season (dare I say sometimes 163?), and as gut wrenching as a game may be, there’s always tomorrow, at least until the end. Time for the Mets to put this in the rear view mirror and take their frustration out on the Phillies. I almost feel bad for them.
dykstraw-I don’t know who you are, but your comments above are GREAT!
Editor’s Note: Can I compliment?
As I pointed out to a friend recently. TC cannot figure out how to use 25, and when you add 14 more, he’s just completely lost.
thanks. i’m literally not mad at all that we lost but absolutely fuming at the managerial choices that got us to that point. if joe maddon plays chess, and most managers are playing checkers, TC is settling in for game 153 of chutes & ladders.
Or Tiddly Winks.
competitive tiddlywinks players might disagree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiddlywinks#Skill_versus_strategy.2C_and_comparable_games
Blind-folded Tiddlywinks.
TC pinch hitting Plawecki was assinine.
So was not giving him the ‘take’ sign on a 2-0 count. This is a minor leaguer with a .200 average, not Rod Carew.
So is virtually running out of players on a 39 man roster.What a knucklehead . Still can’t believe it.
dykstra-we are kindred spirits!
eric1973—-you too!
I too am in the camp that says TC lost us that game. Plawecki is the king of choke, and putting him in for Loney who has been such an awesome clutch guy seemed insane. I called it at the time. TC just lost us this game.
Honestly Jason, I don’t know how you and Greg can do this. How in the world are you guys able to write such concise, intelligent and utterly readable blogs after such excruciating disappointments. Amazin’ to me. Moving on.
I’m rather shocked that no one has commented on the most glaring, inexcusable misplay in the entire game. Although Jason did mention it in passing in his piece.
I think THE game changing play was Cespedes (once AGAIN!!!) failing to do the simplest thing of all – RUN!!! I’VE SEEN DOZENS OF LITTLE LEAGUERS DO THIS WELL!!!! But golly, didn’t he look GOOD watching it all the way to first!!
Not getting to third on his fly ball to left was completely, utterly and shamefully noteworthy. If he’s at third with one out, that changes EVERYTHING in that inning. Sure, I’m sure commenters will opine “Hey, look, he ended up there anyway.” How simplistic! If he’s there to begin with, maybe they don’t walk Granderson, maybe he gets a shot to drive him in. Certainly, Rivera isn’t forced to go done 0-1 on the double steal. No doubt that changes his whole AB. We can all say that they had second and third with one down, and loaded with two down, and we didn’t score anyway. True, but we will never know if the inning would have unfolded the same way (very, very likely it wouldn’t have) if Cespedes would have simply RUN.
In my opinion, a player who can’t do such a simple thing as all-out hustle when EVERYTHING is on the line, I’m pretty sure is a player I don’t want to tie up $100 million or so for the next four years as the skills he does have will certainly erode.
It was simply unforgivable and I’m just shocked no one even seems to care. Guess I’m “old school” and believe in playing baseball the right way.
Pete – Not sure I agree with the “no one even seems to care” part regarding Cespedes standing around admiring his work instead of busting it down to 1B. Gary Keith and Ron were all over him right away, Twitter went nuts about it, and there are several comments here about it, starting with what I presume Jason meant when talking about “lazy” execution. It might not have wound up the most frustrating thing about last night’s debacle, but it sure hasn’t gone unnoticed.
I also agree with Pete. Cespedes could have helped in a huge way by showing the slightest bit of hustle on the bags. Infuriating.
The Ces not running thing was infuriating, and that is why you think twice about signing him to a long term contract. But PIzza and the Captain got dinged a few times for not hustling, and they apparently are beloved.
Hot off the presses!
Mets just filled out the 40-man roster. The bat boy is ambidextrous, so TC is a lock to pitch him in the 8th tonight.
Sign Rick Ankiel, let him face tough lefty hitter, then let him stay in to bat. Saves a roster spot.
Nope. Too late for that. The delicate genius — err, Joe Madden — already signed him for that duty.
Matz won’t start Friday, probably done for the year.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled Terry’s A Genius/Terry’s A Dope, already in progress.
how is this organization so consistently wrong about evaluations of player’s injuries?
I for one am glad the Matz suspense drama is over. Yesterday he was on (depending on Thursday), now he’s off (“probably” done for the year). DeGrom was on (last Saturday) then he was off (“probably” done for the year). Wheeler was on for July – then off – then on – then “probably” done for the year. Harvey was on – for 17 miserable starts – then off – positively done for the year.
David Wright? Probably on for next year? Neil Walker (expecting a multi-year offer after season-ending back surgery) probably on for next year?
Matz, DeGrom, Harvey, Wright, Walker = surgery in 2016. Syndergaard hoping to make it through the regular + wild card + ?
The five young guns are very valuable and very delicate commodities.
Oh – and Duda’s in the dugout (but probably…, ?)
Clearly, the sweep by the Braves was the baseball gods notifying the Mets that the next sacrifice of a core member of the team was due.
Losing deGrom paid for the Twins sweep. Losing Matz likely for the season ought to be propitiation enough to buy a few wins, with 10 left to play maybe even enough wins to qualify for the WC game.
I guess if sacrificing Matz isn’t enough to pay the last 2 weeks rent for the 2016 season, Syndergaard is on notice as the last crown jewel.
Haha! I can certainly see why you’d say that Greg. It is a predictable and tiresome exercise isn’t it? Here’s the thing. We aren’t 2 sides of the same coin. I generally hate to speak for others, but I am reasonably confident that Rob E and Dave and the others along with myself who have defended Terry don’t believe he is a genius. However, this crowd of virulent pitchfork carriers genuinely believe him to be an idiot. This man who has been trusted to manage multiple major league teams. This man who has dedicated his life to baseball and worked at virtually every level of the game. This man who has led the NY Mets to 2 of their most successful and exciting seasons ever. In their eyes he is stupid. A clown. A joke. [No. This is where you’re going too far, Matt. You need to make your point without insulting others.]
This is what sticks in my craw. The utter lack of nuance. The complete absence of humility. The way that EVERY SINGLE time adversity pops up, he is in some way to blame, yet when things go well he gets zero credit.
You and Jason don’t play this game. You are even handed, and I respect that. If you think he screwed up, you call him out, but you give him props from time to time as well. [And again. You can make this point without assuming other people have an agenda.]
I think Terry Collins is a poor tactical manager, whether it’s sac bunts or bullpen management or cascading decisions that paint him into a corner. I also think when he has a full roster he gives too many ABs to “proven veterans” when younger players would give the Mets a greater chance to win. And recently he’s simply forgetting things, which is worrisome.
I also think Terry Collins is an excellent clubhouse manager. He’s a good teacher, does well with the press, and everyone in his clubhouse seems more or less on the same page with him and plays hard. These aspects of being a manager can’t be quantified and so don’t carry as much weight in discussions, but they’re arguably more important than on-field decisions.
Here’s the thing that gets missed, though: both these things can be true at the same time.
I think Terry screwed up a number of things in Wednesday night’s game and calling him out for it is appropriate. I also think it’s a near-miracle that this Plan C team of injury replacements and spare parts is in contention for a postseason berth, and he deserves a lot of credit for that.
I agree with Jason on both his points on Terry–good for clubhouse, poor tactical and pitching management, and have said so several times here–in contrast to claims that I, and others here, are simply “pitchfork carriers.”
The way he pitched last game, one wonders if Noah is also “done for the year.” Bullets spent. Remember he had said he was “stiff” after his previous start and then pitched crap even with extra day.
Of course Bart is still going strong–probably will pitch winter ball. Probably keeps elbow strong via lifting of beer steins to lips.
Does Matz even still have a bright future? I’m really starting to wonder. Same goes for Wheeler and Harvey. Not yet deGrom, but he’s got me worried. How sad. Or at least discouraging. But it can wait for after this crazy season finishes
Mean and sad to say, but at least the Mets haven’t agreed to a long-term contract yet with any of the young guns like the Nationals bonded their team to Strasburg, who seems about as fragile as his Mets peers.
I still hope that Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Syndergaard, and Matz will provide us with at least one season as an all-time starting rotation, with each of them pulling ahead nightly in the Cy Young race, with Familia in the conversation, but right now, that dreamed of glory seems unlikely.
Jason, I think your overall assessment of TC is spot on. Very strong in the clubhouse, mediocre to weak on tactics. And if we have to have one or the other, I vote clubhouse. The other side of that coin, in my opinion, was Jeff Torborg. Really on top of the x’s and o’s, majorly cerebral, but I never saw a manager lose a clubhouse as completely as Torborg did. I’d take Collins over Torborg any day of the year.
Wow, not exactly the biggest compliment in the world.
I think Matt and some of us should be put on the Commenters DL. It would truly make us feel like actual members of the team.
After all, he is a master baiter.
Jason-while I do not agree with your assessment, except when you agreed with me about him being a poor tactical manager. You take a reason d approach, and do not come across as someone who is defending the guy, but just observing.
My opinion remains the same. They ran him out of Anaheim. He did not do anything to elevate the team here-pre ’15. He had 6 good weeks last year, and three this year.
What players has he developed? Conforto? Really?
Again, to me he constantly finds ways to put his players/team in positions to fail….
What do I know? I am just a fan here in New Jersey.
Its probably best if TC leaves the starting lineup out there for the full nine innings. Better he does nothing than make an actual decision.
Who cares how they get along in the clubhouse?
I bet the Phillies, Padres, and Angels get along great, too.
Hopefully, Smoker’s not available, so Addison Reed can pitch the whole 8th inning.
Careful what you wish for.
Just hadda see “100 Responses.”
seems the whole TC clubhouse v. tactical wold be moot if he had so strong an X’s and O’s bench coach that we’d never know about TC’s lapses.
stunning ending tonite so we live and breathe another day with the top WC spot.
had a sinking feeling tonite that last night’s catch would indeed mark the extinguishing of the magic that seemed to have been leaking out of the balloon – or was it a bubble. perhaps just another exhausting test…